EDITORIAL: An immodest proposal for our schools' future

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EDITORIAL: An immodest proposal for our schools' future

Earlier this week the deadline for submissions to School District 20's Planning for the Future process passed. Of the approximately 137 submissions currently posted to the board's web site, a mere 13 or so come from Rossland. It's likely that the controversial Planning for the Future Part 2 document, with its hypothetical scenarios of closing elementary schools in Warfield and Trail and reconfiguring RSS as a K-12 school had two main effects: that of galvinizing the populations of Trail and Warfield into aggressive action and that of lulling the population of Rossland into some sort of daydream that K-12 was a fait accompli.

The majority of Trail submissions (you can view them all here) were reasonable documents, albeit with a marked and predictable anti-RSS slant. When the money is scarce, people look out for their own first. Here are a few fairly representative comments:

  • “The answer is really a simple one. RSS must be closed. It is a reality that this district has been facing for close to 20 years...It is an issue that will create problems so long as RSS remains open.” --Roland Vogel, Trail;
  • “Until the closure of R.S.S. becomes a reality the entire district will be in crisis both emotionally, educationally and financially.” --John D'archangelo, Trail;
  • “Closing Rossland Senior Secondary is the obvious choice. The 6’s & 7’s at RSS would be moved back to MacLean Elementary School. The grade 8’s and 9’s from RSS would be bused to TMS and the 10’s, 11’ and 12’s to JL Crowe.” --Kevin Jolly, Trail.

These statements, it should be noted, are not written in tones of personal hostility toward the residents of Rossland. Rather, these opinions are informed by a world view that assumes the current funding formula is the alpha and omega when it comes to deciding the future of our schools and what's best for our children and young people. True, arguments are also made that limited course selection is a factor in their thinking, but given that, currently, Rossland parents can choose to send their kids to Crowe for a wider selection of offerings and almost none do, we can dismiss those as irrelevant.

Not all the submissions advocated the bussing of Rossland kids to Trail:

  • “Our vision for Neighbourhoods of Learning in Rossland centres around the creation of a resilient learning community that provides a wide range of educational opportunities and community services for people that live in Rossland and the Greater Trail Area, and for those that visit Rossland from all around the world, for all stages in their lives.”--Rossland Neighbourhoods of Learning Committee;
  • “Rossland is a unique community that has long placed the highest value on K -12 education in our community. This is evidenced by the support and involvement of parents and community in the schools, by the education innovations taking place in RSS and Maclean (e.g. International program launched here, Academies, Strong Start etc.) and by the attendance at various public meetings over the years (e.g. the 1st Planning for the Future meeting held in Rossland attracted about 120 people). It is also demonstrated by the educational excellence at Maclean and RSS, which is rooted in the mutual involvement of parents, educators and community...Our schools lie at the heart of our community and we are committed to maintaining an education system that keeps our kids in our town.”--Rossland Visions for Small Schools;
  • “The closing and disposal of MacLean Elementary and creation of a K – 9 school or a K –12 school in RSS makes sense on a budgetary and educational basis. There are manyexamples of successful hybrid elementary-secondary schools across the province, and this re-configuration would retain the school in community”--Greater Trail mayors;
  • “Send all letters collected through the Planning for the Future process pertaining to the closure of schools to the Minister to the Minister of Education. These letters are representative of the strong sentiment being expressed by all BC communities: NO MORE SCHOOL CLOSURES. Continue to elicit letters of support for all schools from the public. Submit (once again) a needs-based budget that supports the retention of all schools in SD20. Request that the MoE acknowledge that the current funding formula is causing BC education to falter. It is the responsibility of the MoE to ensure that BC strives toward a 100% graduation rate.”--RSS PAC.

Here's the bottom line. Two 'visions of the future' are being expressed here. The School Board will make its decisions based on one or the other.

Vision A: The real politik view. If one looks at RSS solely in terms of dollars and cents, a strong case can be made for closing it. Money is tight, and RSS is old, it can't be denied. Of course, according to that same logic, we'd all start euthanizing our grannies in tough economic times. According to this logic, why not shut Crowe as well and ship ALL our kids to a super school in Castlegar or Nelson? Certainly, if this vision prevails, when the next round of cuts come and J.L. Crowe is on the chopping block, anguished parents down the hill won't be able to count on Rossland for support.

Vision B: The intangible argument. The only way to fight this harsh logic is with a vision that takes into account the intangibles that make life worth living: community, the pedagogical value of small schools, the role of schools in the viability of small, struggling towns, and the opportunities for flexibility offered by the digital age. This vision is closer to the heart of what education is supposed to be about. It's in line with the provincial government's Neighborhoods of Learning philosophy. And it can be achieved in a financially viable manner if we all pull together and get creative.

We live in tough times, economically and otherwise. We're in danger of becoming a people who look at everything in terms of the bottom line. In 1729 satirist Jonathan Swift wrote, in response to concerns about Irish poverty, “I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled ...” Is this the kind of thinking that, in one form or another, will rule both our futures and the futures of our children and grandchildren? Swift's point, of course, was that if you look at things from a strictly financial standpoint, people have no worth. The real value of things can never be quantified in monetary terms.

So which comes first: kids or money? Community or expediency?

The line has been drawn: if RSS is to have a viable future, as the overwhelming majority of Rosslanders want, we will have to make the case that such factors can and should be taken into account. Let's plan for a future—a real future filled with happy kids and healthy communities here, in Warfield, and, yes, even in Trail.

So go to the board's web site and read the submissions there. See what you think. Decide what future you want.

NOTE: We've heard that there's a good chance that late submissions by motivated Rosslanders may not be turned away, even at this late date. 

Comments

Very good column

There's a very good column written by Larry Gray, Fruitvale Village Councillor, in Wednesday 10th (yesterday's) opinion page in the Trail Times, on regional economic development and growth. I encourage everyone to read it. Maybe then you'll understand why closing RSS would be a dangerous and short-sighted thing to do for Greater Trail. I'll post a link if they put it up on their website.

Thanks. I'll try to

find a copy and read it. He was one of those who spoke against Trail in past public meetings when TMS and Crowe size were being discussed. I can round up a number of people who were there and listened in shock. - fp

Strength in numbers

Personally, I think we should look really hard at Vince Morelli's idea to merge with Kootenay Lake school district. With the ministry funding based on FTE's, small districts like ours just can't make it work without cutting to the bone, and it's only going to get worse as enrollment declines. In this instance, bigger can definitely be better, and I'm certain we can find a lot of duplication in the administrative/board end that can be eliminated. There is also the benefit of receiving more funding from the ministry because of their distance formula -- schools that are located a certain distance away from the board office get more funding. We have no geographical boundaries separating us. It seems like a very sensible option -- one that could save us an awful lot of money, without ripping apart communities.

Equally, Nelson could

use that formula to its advantage. Leave the board office in the south end and claim distance hardship for its schools. Not a good enough reason to turn the school district into another IHA Kelowna based head office. Why stop at Nelson? Why not include Grand Forks, Beaverdell? Mr Morelli's idea is loopy to say the least. -fp

Loopy idea?

Kootenay Lake School District (not Nelson, just like Kootenay-Columbia School District is not Trail) already gets distance funding - it covers a large geographical area from Meadow Creek to Creston. Who would benefit would be us, as combining into one big school district (perhaps calling it Kootenay Columbia but basing the board office in Nelson as that would be more central between Fruitvale, Meadow Creek and Creston) would enable most of our schools to be eligible for the distance funding. Surely you can't argue that having one board office for the West Kootenay isn't more fiscally responsible than having two? After all, 88 per cent of SD20's costs are in staffing. Then there are costs of maintaining two offices, etc. I'm talking merging all of the West Kootenay into one district, not merging with Kelowna. That would probably save even more money, but as I'm sure you've figured out by now, I don't think saving money is the only priority the school district has. So give me some concrete reasons as to why it's a loopy idea, FP?

Doesn't staffing include

teachers? Yes, it's loopy. You have a perfectly great high school 10 minutes away. If those communities you mention in the Nelson District had a high school 10 minutes away, don't you think they'd attend? It's also loopy because it's contrived. You might end up with one high school in Castlegar. Is that what you want? fp

North end, south end

North end, south end - how very clean and simple that argument is. Let me dirty it up a little. SD20 contains three cities, and many, many smaller villages and other communities. Each of the three cities has a high school. FP, why can you not respect that Rossland is not just a bedroom community of Trail? Rossland is a proud little city, with a long, strong history of achievement. We aren't just a subdivision that shuts down from 9 to 5 daily while everyone leaves to work in Trail. My husband and I both work in Rossland, and there are many, many others like us, who have no more connection to Trail than we do to Castlegar or Nelson. Before you go nuts and start calling me a Rossland snob, I am not insulting Trail, Castlegar or Nelson. They are all excellent communities -- I have also lived in Nelson and Castlegar, and I have family in Trail. But Rossland is our home, which we chose to live in, because it has everything we want in a community, which includes schools our children can walk to. We can live anywhere we want (and have lived in several other places), and we did not move here to send our kids out of town.

North end/south end

Are terms that are used to describe the School District. Moreover, terms, such as Lower Columbia, are also used for economic development. I believe Rossland is an active partner in the Lower Columbia Development Team. You continually miss the point. Sigh. RSS is the weak link. You believe that it's OK to close Webster Elementary in Warfield, Glenmerry Elementary in Trail and Castlegar Primary in Castlegar. All to keep RSS going. You likely cheered when it was proposed that Webster and Glenmerry be merged into one large elementary school, MacLean's merging with RSS, yet all the while gnashing your teeth over RSS merging with Crowe. There is a disconnect in your logic. - fp

Speaking of missing the point

I do NOT think it's okay for Webster Elementary, Glenmerry Elementary and Castlegar Primary to close. How many times do I have to say that, FP???? And, no, I didn't cheer. You continually accuse Rosslanders of being negative towards Trail, and yet constantly insult us yourself. I don't know why I bother. I suspect if RSS was packed to the hilt, you'd still be fighting to shut it down, due to perceived past injustices and the worry that Rossland is getting something Trail doesn't have.

How many times and ways do

I have to say it? If RSS were packed with high school students (not a contrived school with 5 & 6 year olds), and course selection were normal (not contrived), and if the District were not in a deficit position and facing declining enrollment, I would have no problem with RSS. May it live forever. It would be worth putting money into the building because there is value for tax money. But, it's not reality. So rather than sacrifice the elementary schools that are at near full capacity, close RSS that is not. How difficult is that for you to understand? No one is worrying about Rossland getting something Trail doesn't have (your words). That's the nuttiest reaction from you yet. - fp

FP, where were you when a

FP, where were you when a brand new middle school was built that should never have been built in the first place? Extravagent waste of taxpayer dollars. If you look at the kindergarten registration numbers for 2010/2011 you will see they are up significantly from last year. Perhaps the sky is not falling as hard as we might think.... Apparently, the annual facilities grant is to be restored next year...which will help. Can anyone confirm this? We have it pretty good in this area for healthcare. But if we continue to chip away at the foundations of communities: schools and hospitals...then we may just find that this area will be less and less appealing, and we'll lose that critical mass of skilled workers necessary to drive the economy. Without good hospitals and schools Teck may also find it harder to recruit.... Why not just wait it out a few years....enrollment is projected further down the road to rise again. There's lots of cost-saving measures such as a 4 day school week that could help us ride this current wave of declining enrollment. Maybe someday if the TOTAL enrollment of secondary school students declines to 850, and RSS drops below the critical number needed for basic secondary education, then we could consider closing RSS. However, 15 years down the road could be an entirely different picture, as the children of baby boomers continue to have children of their own, and waves of retirement continue making room for a younger workforce (which btw is cheaper to pay). A 4 day school week would resolve budget issues....and be reversible. Much less harmful to students than closing schools, which is IRreversible. And a 4 day would save far more than closing RSS. Is that fiscally prudent enough for you???? Are you forgetting who are the most important ones here? The students. HAve you asked them how they feel about course selection at RSS? As long as students continue to register at RSS, then that's evidence they feel their course selection is adequate. How would you like it if the students said, "stop wasting my taxpayer money on seniors programs? There's nothing wrong with separating a senior couple who were together all their life by putting one in a care home in Grand Forks because it's just CHEAPER to do that". Of course it's just WRONG to do that to people!!!!! We're talking about life, meaning and other intangibles. We have to continue to shout loud and clear that health and education is about much more than just the cold hard cash. Of course we'll always disagree on what we see as wasteful spending...but so long as you continue to attack RSS without offering any other meaningful suggestions about how to address the budget problem, then I doubt anyone will really take you seriously. Please fp, just leave Rossland alone (and remember- I live in Trail also). Please allow a bit of flexibility in your thinking and consider that there might be other valid perspectives beside your own. No one is attacking Trail. Stop attacking Rossland.

Who is attacking whom?

This thread that has now had about 76 comments began as outlined below: The majority of Trail submissions (you can view them all here) were reasonable documents, albeit with a marked and predictable anti-RSS slant. When the money is scarce, people look out for their own first. Here are a few fairly representative comments: * “The answer is really a simple one. RSS must be closed. It is a reality that this district has been facing for close to 20 years...It is an issue that will create problems so long as RSS remains open.” --Roland Vogel, Trail; * “Until the closure of R.S.S. becomes a reality the entire district will be in crisis both emotionally, educationally and financially.” --John D'archangelo, Trail; * “Closing Rossland Senior Secondary is the obvious choice. The 6’s & 7’s at RSS would be moved back to MacLean Elementary School. The grade 8’s and 9’s from RSS would be bused to TMS and the 10’s, 11’ and 12’s to JL Crowe.” --Kevin Jolly, Trail. The editor did not give the rationale behind these conclusions . I filled in where the editorial left huge gaps. My responses were both fact and opinion-based. So, Dot, who attacked whom? fp

Middle School is a great idea

and it's a wonderful new school, too. I think we should keep it and move Grade 8 & 9 students from the south end of the district into that new school The money has already been spent. Why spend more on trying to upgrade an older school. Makes no sense to me. Dot, you're great but far too emotional over this thing. - fp

Middle School - Hormone central and more disruption to students

Logicaly, this would make sense, and I can see why it looks like an obvious choice from an efficiency perpective - you can get larger class sizes when you have more students together and pay less in teacher salaries (Which we know is not good for academic achievement which is supposed to be the primary focus of SD20). However, split grades in a community school can also achieve similar efficiencies without ripping students from schools in their own communities. (even at the secondary school level). And yes - having attended some programs there, it's a nice school. Let's not get fooled by attractive appearances, however. Having taught for several years in both regular classroom and alternative education settings, and remembering what it's like to be 13-15 years old....I don't believe middle schools are necessarily in students' best interest. At such a tumultuous time in their lives, why throw a 3rd school change into the picture? Why separate siblings more than necessary? I also don't feel a K-2 school is really idea either as it's preferable to keep primary students as close to home as possible and as close to their siblings and friends as possible. Children, even teenagers and adults thrive best on routines...and when you change the routine too often, there's bound to be growing pains that can interfere with enjoyment of school, and with learning. I've also substitute taught in small K-12 schools...and as a sub it was my most pleasant experience. The students treated me with the most respect of any schools I subbed at. Students were looking out for another - and the senior ones actually moderated their behaviour more...knowing that they were not so "anonymous". They only had to pay one principal instead of 2. When I've taught in environments with large numbers of grade 8-9 students together, it was honestly largely a nightmare trying to control so many raging hormones at once. One was constantly having to go against the tendency for pack mentality. I'd rather drive my children up the hill to a K-12 school in Rossland (or 6-12 RSS), than go to a middle school for only a couple of years...only to change schools yet again. I don't think that's really fair to students to have so much change in a short period of time. This is not molly coddling, it's called putting people first before numbers/money, and helping students learn the value of community, and learning to get along with people of ALL ages.

I agree

with you about the middle school thing, Dot. The middle school concept is built on a clearly defined philosophy, according to one proponent, a ms teacher know. Should we create a middle school and reconfigure all other schools simply to use the building?

Junior High School

as a concept has been around for a very long time. It has been successful. We don't have to create a junior high, the building already exists. From George Penhold's report (see Some sobering news): ...BC stats projects moderate population growth and a long, slow turn around in the 0 - 17 age category after 2018 that will result in a return to 2008 levels by 2036 in the Selkirk College region. (page 12) Are you saying that the District should continue to run a deficit ( a million or more dollars per year) until 2036 when enrollment levels return to the 2008 levels? What don't you and Dot understand about demographics? fp

Did you read my post

under "Some sobering news"? There is a link there to a report prepared by George Penhold, Regional Innovation Chair of Economic Development, Selkirk College. If you read through the entire report you might understand what I've been getting at for the last while. There won't be enough "young" people to put first in 10 to 15 years. fp PS: I admit, it was some time ago, but after grade 8 at Webster, all of us went to downtown Trail to attend grade 9 at Trail Jr Secondary. Kids from other elementary schools in Trail attended same school from grade 8. (Don't recall if grade 7s were there or not). Our senior years from 10 to 12 were at Crowe. We didn't die. We flourished. What is it with the hormones? Surely, these things existed when we were that age, too. If you feel that strongly about keeping things soft, maybe you might consider a private school. However, I'll bet that hormones exist in that setting, too. Sorry Dot, I just don't get what you're driving at. There must be more to this than you're saying.

Soft and More

There's a difference between keeping things "soft" versus forcing unecessary changes on students (yet another change....). Especially given that these changes that would appear to be made to appease the forces that so enthusiastically supported the building of a brand new middle school, only to have it close down shortly thereafter. Why not admit it was a mistake to build?....instead of all these scenarios created that would appear to be attempts to save face and scramble to find uses for a new empty building? Yes, we're stuck with it now....but does that mean we have the right to pillage students from other communities just for the sake of filling it? Perhaps this is what Trustee Kinakin was getting at when he suggested the residents of Trail are more concerned with saving buildings than with programs. (just like one might suggest the IHA and the Ministry of Health is more concerned with filling residential care beds with any patient, no matter how far away from home...versus filling beds in a more humane way that does not separate seniors from their families. Or perhaps you think the SPCS is also being "soft" in trying to advocate for better seniors care? I personally think that's a worthy cause...or maybe I'm just being too "soft" there also?). Wanting to keep a high school is no slight against any other community or school. It's rather, a sign of valuing a local tradition of community spirit and wanting to keep it. There's great value in being known by all your fellow students and teachers, and great value in being able to walk to school. If a scenario were proposed (hypothetical) to close Crowe and bus students up to Rossland....there would be even more parents in Trail saying "No - we want to keep our students in our own community...because that's their home." I'm not sure what happened with Fruitvale high school...if there was much opposition to its closure? But certainly it would be difficult to turn back that clock and build a K-12 school in Fruitvale. But does that mean Rossland should also lose K-12? It strikes me as somewhat retributional and vindictive to suggest they should. Just like it's inappropriate for surgical services in the Kootenay Boundary to be cut in order to match those of the East Kootenay...the same could be considered true of school closures. Two wrongs don't make a right. East Kootenays will lose further access to surgical service (as many travel here for specialties like plastic hand surgery, that is not offered there). Likewise if Rossland lost K-12 education, some students in Trail and area would also lose because they have one less option of a school environment for secondary education. Many do travel up the hill to RSS, just as some travel down the hill to Crowe. Further evidence that one size does not fit all. The "more" part is my disillusionment of the frightening trend of excessive centralization...we've seen it in healthcare and what it's doing to that...and now we see it in schools, starting with losses of neighbourhood schools. School Districts, like the Health Authorities, seem to serve as a deflector between rural areas and Victoria, ultimately resulting in Victoria being less and less accountable to these rural areas. And the more we centralize services, the more we risk losing even more of the sense of community spirit and neighbours looking out for one another. If Rossland wants to keep K-12 education, then why not let it happen,if it's done in a fiscally responsible manner? If that can be done, fp....will you just give it a rest? I get the impression this is about more than just fiscal prudence. Otherwise we'd see more comments from you on other school district operations that could be run more efficiently. RSS is just one tiny drop in the bucket in the overall picture.

You haven't been in

the work world, have you? Change and ability to adapt to change is a constant. It's stressful. But it's there. If you can't cut it, then you'll have to find another job somewhere. Perhaps you've been in this protective Kootenay bubble too long. RSS is costing more per student already. How much more do you want to take away from other students in the District just to keep an unsustainable operation going? RSS is the weak link in the chain. It is about fiscal prudence and demographic shift. You just can't accept that change is here and it's going to be quite different. While the NDP may be espousing its usual platitudes, if it were to form a govt (provincially) it, too, would have to heed the demographics. Otherwise it would fail. So, rather than lashing out, why not heed the demographics and plan for the future? Why delay and wait for a crisis? Health care for seniors and seniors care is going to get worse, not better. I doubt there will be much available for those of us just retiring and planning for the last phase of our lives. Just as there won't be as much in terms of Canada Pension available for our children and grandchildren. In fact, they'll have a huge tax burden if we don't learn to do more with less. I'm sure you wish things were better, kinder, gentler as they once were. But, the baby boomer bulge will occupy our social policy for quite sometime. - fp

Adios

Ya, you're right. 5 years is a long time to become sheltered in the Kootenays. And 25 years of emplyment is definitely not enough to attain your level of wisdom about how the work world works. And living in 3 different provinces would certainly make me incapable of seeing how things can be done differently in different places. My hometown has a thriving brand new K-12 school with all the energy efficient perks to keep operational spending down, and bussing costs kept to a minimum. Ironically there are larger high schools located only 20 minutes away (and stop saying Rossland is only 10 minutes drive to Crowe...easily takes 15-20 minutes depending on which end of town you're on). That school has a similar amount of students that a K-12 school in Rossland would have. And yes, I believe we can do more with less....lots of ways to address fiscal restraints without closing schools and destroying traditions. Some changes are beneficial....and some changes are worth preventing. An example of a change is the 4 day school week (but while it would save far more $ annually, it wouldn't be nearly as fun as picking on RSS....). The minute we embrace learned helplessness, creative thinking is lost. Adios amigo. I'm officially signing out of this debate. Look forward to seeing your name in the next round of trustee elections. Ciao.

Downtown to downtown

is no more than 10 minutes. Is the location of the K-12 school you referenced in BC? If it's ok to propose closing 2 elementary schools at full capacity then it's should be ok to close one that is not. This is not picking on RSS. If it were Crowe that was not sustainable I would be arguing to have it closed. If it were Crowe that had more Principals that it actually needs, then I would propose they take early retirement. That's just not the reality, though. I have no desire to become a trustee. It's a thankless job. If employment was in a sheltered teaching environment it's different from private sector, imho. Maybe we can debate another issue sometime. It wasn't that bad, was it? Until later...fp

There's enough to go around

Dear FP,

I don't think anyone is suggesting spending money where there isn't any.  But I think with our current government, we are suffering from the tyranny of a poor sense of priorities.  Simply put, this is Reaganomics.  It's a tradition of Laissez-Faire economics, that of course goes back to Adam Smith.  It's actually a kind of "Liberalism", and more specifically, "Neo-Liberalism".

Most people are very confused about the difference between Conservatism and Liberalism.  Conservatism suggests a preservation of tradition.  That is what it meant once, but not anymore.  Most "conservative" governments adopt a philosophy fo liberal econonics.  That means, a belief in free-enterprize, or keeping "big government" out of economics.

This is mostly a dishonest policy pushed by big corporations who want to keep governements out of their hair, pay as little taxes as possible, avoid regulations, and embark on industries traditionally reserved for public services, like health, but also education, and so on.  Because when it comes to government hand-outs, you'll find no-one readier than the big corps (like the recent "bail-out").

So you are being handed crumbs and being asked to make a meal, and lied to that times are tough.  Yes, for you and me.  But not for the top 2% who have been growing ever more wealthy at an exponential rate for the last century. 

So you may pride yourself in being "prudent" with the tidbits you have been given to subsist on, but the truth is there's enough moneny.  And there's enough money not only for you and for me, but also the great masses of the Third World who have been impoverished at our expenses.

It's just a matter of fixing our priorities.  And more importantlhy, tackling the neo-liberal and Adam Smithian delusion that first, man is selfish, and that a survival of the fittest economic philosophy creates wealth for all.  We've had 250 years to prove that it hasn't.

Makes for great debate

and dinner conversation but it doesn't pay the bills and it doesn't affect the current situation we are in as a nation. There is no Mannah from Heaven. We have the current crop of parties: nationally Lib and Con, forget NDP it'll never form a national govt and provincially, Lib and NDP. I don't have a crystal ball, but, if the current voting trends continue, Libs will form the next BC govt, once again. - fp

Unbelievable

Rosslanders continually slam Trail from everything to contaminated soil to theatre curtains. I attended many of the large public meetings when Crowe's fate was being decided. I heard the negativity from Rossland and the arrogance from the then Superintendent regarding Trail parents. It was not nice and painted Trail as the land of the unwashed and uneducated. Rosslanders cut a deal with the then MLA and screwed Trail out of an 1100 school and helped close the Middle School. The then representative trustee was condescending towards Trail all the while working in Trail influencing the then Superintendent who worked on the same floor. Do you really think your neighbours down the hill are going to forget this? Rossland is going to have to earn their trust back. Even today, the Rossland "illuminati" continue to intimidate Rossland parents into publicly speaking their minds against their ideas. What parent wouldn't be intimidated when even RSS teachers & Principals get into the act? Parents are reluctant to speak against the "illuminati" when those in positions of authority might treat their little Johnny differently. Thanks goodness I no longer have children in the school system. BC is particularly bad with the cozy relationship between teachers' unions and the NDP. While I'm at it, Rosslanders refused to pay their share for regional recreation services and still don't pay their fair share for sewage treatment. Trail taxpayers pay 70% of the cost. Now, you want Trailites to work together with Rosslanders? Unbelievable. If you want to negotiate, you'll have to go to the table offering something. Rossland can't always just take. OK Not everybody at once. FP

I can completely understand

I can completely understand why parents in Trail and Warfield are so angry about the proposal to close Glenmerry and Webster and move all the elementary school-aged children to TMS. Closing schools does irreparable damage to communities, and in my opinion, that never should have been an option. But I honestly don't think there's any chance of Glenmerry and Webster closing -- there is too much widespread disapproval of closing those two schools, including from us negative, manipulative Rosslanders, and I believe the trustees hear that. But there's one other thing I just don't understand, FP. Trail is a wonderful community, filled with passionate volunteerism and excellence in achievement in so many fields. It enjoys some of the lowest property taxes in the province, and has a wealth of amenities, such as an excellent community centre, a fine aquatic centre, beautiful parks, gorgeous landscaping and flower beds, fine murals, etc etc -- things that Rossland can only dream of having. JL Crowe is a beautiful, well-equipped school, which gives students access to better labs and technology than anyone else in the district and has excellent Fraser institute ratings. Glenmerry has been significantly upgraded and is an excellent school. These are all things to treasure and be proud of! So just what is it that Trail is being ripped off about? What are you lacking? I am not whining that Trail has more. We live in Rossland, have far fewer amenities and pay much higher taxes -- that is our choice and if we don't like it, we can move. But you seem to think that Trail has been continually ripped off by Rosslanders, and I just can't see what you're missing! Why do you want more so others get less, when you already have the most?

Who said Trail was being

ripped off? There some glaring problems in the School District. These problems have been around for quite some time. As a taxpayer I want to see that my tax dollars are spent wisely. I could have told you years ago that enrollment was declining and that based on current funding requirements, something had to give. If RSS is not closed next year, it will be the year after due to unsustainable enrollment. I don't want to see the backroom deals resurface just to postpone the inevitable. I don't want to see good money thrown after bad into fixing up a high school that cannot sustain its enrollment. Why should schools that are operating at full capacity be closed just to satisfy you? Because something will have to give. If its not the weak link RSS, it'll have to be others that are not weak links. I didn't claim I am missing anything. Who is asking for more? In the major economic center, Trail, there is only one public elementary school. Who is asking for more? It's not Trail. You're grasping at straws trying to make untenable arguments. If you had a business and you hired a good employee who just happened to move to Nelson, would you be sympathetic when that person couldn't show up for work because of distance issues? Would you pay the person anyway? I doubt it. Its the employee's responsibility to show up for work regardless of where he or she chooses to live. My point is that if you choose to live where you live, then you also put up with the consequences. That may include sending your kids to a high school 10 minutes away, just like Fruitvale & Montrose. - fp

Impacting eachother

Hi Shelly, I doubt there is a parent in SD20 that hasn't participated in trying to save one school or another. If one community is successful in keeping their school open, that's great for that community but there is an impact to the rest of the communities within SD20. There are limited funds and somebodies school is going to close. Here are some of the percieved impacts of keeping RSS open; A smaller school was built in Trail than the citizens thought was appropriate. Many believe(d) the closure of RSS is just a matter of time There would be more course options if RSS students were incorporated into Crowe If RSS closes, Crowe is going to have to bring in portables. RSS is being subsidized at the cost of other schools in the district I don't see it as a question of who has more and who has less; I think the problem is Crowe parents are concerned about the impact on thier kids if RSS closes. With the identification of several costly renovations that need to be done to accomodate K-12 at RSS, closure is a real concern, we know there isn't money in the budget for that and the provincal government sure as hell isn't about to pony up cash for the reno's. Maybe if all the citizens of SD20 had taken their blinders off 10 years ago, we might have found a solution to this issue that worked better for all. But we all fought our fights and now we are going to have to make some really tough decisions, it won't be pretty for anybody.

You're right on the money

Kootenay. Some citizens did see this coming 10 years ago. They were painted as Trail-centric when all they were doing was being fiscally prudent with taxpayers' money. The Rossland (former) politicians and community leaders were looking at it from a real estate developers standpoint. If there were ever a public inquiry, a few Rossland politicians would have some "splaining" to do. -fp

It was just a thought

so, ...not part of the solution? Wasn't sure.

What does Rossland

bring to the table? fp

the next ten years

Most of these comments speak to past failures. We citizens have failed in our relationships with each other, no doubt..... But not always, Rossland Light Opera Players,Rossland /Trail Minor Hockey and Minor Soccer Associations, Trail Society for the Performing Arts, Trail Stingrays,'Specially for Kids...... are just a few examples where our communities have worked together for mutual benefit. There are many more. The real problem in SD20 is that we do not foster the respectful relationships that allow for productive collaboration. The mere mention of schools brings out the fangs and send others running for the hills (and valleys). The energy that could be spent on planning for the coming 5 and 10 years, is being spent attacking and defending points of view. Arguments re: numbers, capacity, space, old buildings, water, are drubbed out to make a point....and of course it's all because we all love our kids and our communities so much. Lots has changed in the world of education over that last 10 years; much will change in the next 10 and the Ministry of Education knows it. I am no supporter of the Liberals, but they hold the purse strings for now and they make the directives: -districts are only not allowed to sell school properties except under in exceptional circumstances (the sale to another educational institution would get more consideration, for example). -districts are being encouraged to get innovative. Cost sharing with other governments or private organizations, for example, and are being discouraged, at least in theory, from schools closures. In addition, kindergarten registration in all our elementary schools has increased over last year. So what is the new normal and how will this play into the plan? What will our curriculum look like in 5-10 years, for the 'technology generation'. These questions are on the minds of every district and indeed, every country in the world. Google it. Can Rossland and Trail come together over a common vision???, only if we put the past behind us. Let's try very hard to see the good in each other. For those who can't let that old, old rivalry go..., well, how will anything change for the next generation for parents and kids?

Long Sordid History

Closing schools in SD 20 has been taking place since my kids first entered elementary school back in 1996. First the school board decided we needed to change the junior high schools into middle schools because they determined middle schools provided better support for kids than junior high schools. This was the impetus for building the new middle school in Trail. One year later, middle schools weren't important anymore and they closed the brand new school in Trail and the one in Fruitvale, similar closures were also taking place in Castlegar. Then the school board starting closing elementary schools, there are no more small community schools, they are all gone forever, land and buildings sold off. To me, the closure of schools has happened in a very deliberate manner. The government has revised their funding and education models yearly to keep school boards from ever knowing what the long term plan would be. As a result, they closed schools one at a time, trying to ride out the hard times. What they didn't know at the time was funding under this government is never going to change, and the damage done is so great, they'll never be able to reverse it regardless of who controls government. As a result of the adhoc closure of schools, we have a real mess on our hands. The school board didn't and probably couldn't look at the long term direction the government was going to take and thus couldn't devise a plan that would best fit our school district. The government is closing in for the kill by finishing off Webster and Glennmerry, can private schools be far behind? Throughout all of this history, Rossland has played a key part. Naturally they have fought long and hard to keep their schools, just as all the other communities have done. We all understand what it means to lose a school. I fully expect Rossland to continue to fight for their school, but eventually the reality of the situation needs to be considered in their decision making process. Moving all the kids into RSS sounds like a great idea, but with the several millions of dollars worth of renos that need to be done, is that a reality? Those in Rossland who think their decisions don't affect the rest of the school district; you are sadly mistaken. As a result of your good fight, a small high school was built in Trail that isn't sufficient to house your kids. I understand fighting to keep your school open, I fought for two schools for my kids, but at the end of the day when you look at all the facts are your kids best served by your actions? Have education funding cuts stopped or will they continue; does your education plan take that into consideration? Sometimes reality really sucks

Dot, TMS did not cause

the declining enrollment and the deficit. RSS has been on the chopping block for a number of years. It is the costliest school to operate not to mention the source of contention, politics and outright interference in the decision of a duly elected board. If TMS closed it was for reasons of tic tac toe. Shut down TMS, tear down Crowe and replace it with a smaller capacity school and voila, there's no room for RSS students. In the meantime, RSS takes into the high school, grades 6 and 7, to justify it's still meager capacity. (TMS) it's the white elephant that helped get us into this mess in the first place. Just not true. -fp

In a recent letter to the Board

the Mayor of Rossland made NO commitments or proposals as regards NoL. It is asking the Board to let the city know what it can do re NoL. If the city has to borrow to fix the arena roof, how can it possibly make financial contribution to such programs in the NoL? I'm not saying it's impossible. It just doesn't seem like the city is prepared to offer any significant financial assistance. I still wonder though if the School District has to provide bottled water for private events at RSS. Should the kitchen facilities be closed? Just wondering seeing that lead in the RSS pipes has been made an issue by some parents. - FP

Answer to water question

Here's an excerpt from a letter from Heather Simm of SD20, re water testing, dated May 27: “Again following the Health Canada Guidelines, the second level of sampling was done of all drinking sources in Rossland Secondary School, MacLean Elementary and the MacLean Annex. These results have produced slightly elevated results in several sources at MacLean Elementary and two sources at Rossland Secondary School. The results from the MacLean Annex fell within the acceptable limits. As an interim solution, we have decided to shut down all water fountains at MacLean Elementary and two additional sources at Rossland Secondary School. We will be bringing in bottled water for drinking in conjunction with posting signs at existing water sources to ‘please let water run for one minute before drinking’ (applies to Rossland Secondary only).” So it's actually MacLean that has the bigger water problem. This letter states that RSS has two sources that had to be shut down, but it sounds like the other fountains were left active. However things may have changed since this letter was written. Can anyone clarify this?

Financial ramifications

For FP and the rest of those out there who only think in terms of financial ramifications, perhaps this is an argument for keeping K-12 in Rossland that you can understand. Closing RSS will do irreparable damage to the community of Rossland, as well as Warfield, Trail and the other surrounding communities. Proponents of RSS closure assume that all Rossland students will just trot down the hill to attend school at TMS and Crowe, and that will be that. Simple and clean. It seems to be difficult for some of the people who have lived in the region for a long time to understand this, but it is a reality -- if we lose RSS, we will lose families. Many will move away. They moved to Rossland for the full-meal deal of living in a small community that has everything that is important to them, including small schools within walking distance for their kids. They didn't move here to send their children out of town. If we lose RSS, it will also be more difficult to attract new families, including families of highly-skilled people like doctors and engineers, who more often than not choose to live in Rossland. Losing families and having less attractiveness for new families will affect more than just Rossland's sustainability -- it will affect KBRH, Cominco, and all the businesses in the region, as well as SD20's funding, as enrollment numbers will be lower. We have to come up with solutions that work for everyone. I believe that we can work within the budget and keep Glenmerry and Webster schools as well as K-12 in Rossland, and not just for another couple of years. But we need to work together to do this -- and that's the real challenge. Our school district already lost 50 children to the Francophone school because of poor decision making. Let's not lose more.

Good grief Shelley

Rossland kids have in the past attended Crowe. Your fear mongering does no one any good. If kids want to be home schooled and go to a private school somewhere, that's the choice of their parents. But, hey, keep brainwashing them. They'll eventually have to mix with the unwashed no matter where they go. - fp

Education should not be one size fits all.

FP, lots of parents simply want a smaller, more intimate school environment. It's not fear mongering and it's no slight against Trail. If you choose to believe otherwise, then feel free - that's your choice. Research shows that smaller schools have less bullying, and higher levels of parental involvment and higher or equivalent levels of academic achievement. There's also comfort in knowing that your child will be personally known by everyone from the custodians to fellow parents. Another example: if a student encountered an unresolvable bullying situation (we'd be naive to think that doesn't happen), it would be comfort for parents to know there's another option to start fresh(whether at RSS or JLCSS). Some students will develop leadership potential in a smaller school as they're less intimidated (not just a tiny fish in the big sea). And of course, some will thrive in a larger environment too. My daughter will make her own choice about which high school to attend. I'd just like there to be a choice. Nothing wrong with JLCSS, and nothing wrong with RSS. Both have their pros and cons. It ultimately boils down to matching the educational experience to the child. Education should not be one size fits all. To suggest RSS is not worthy of staying open (if student numbers remain viable...which time will only tell) implies exactly the same type of disregard rural BC is getting from Victoria...that bigger is better. Remove RSS and you remove one more educational choice for students.

Doctors, lawyers, engineers

teachers, nurses, professors, mathematicians, etc. All past graduates in the late 60s from a large Crowe high school. Shocked? Competition and a strong work ethic goes a long way towards success in the big world. You see, when you feel smaller and weaker, you try harder. Please don't molly coddle your kids. It doesn't help them in the real world. - fp

Not shocked at all. Didn't

Not shocked at all. Didn't say there weren't high achieveing graduates from there. It's a great school. I just don't see why there's so much resentment about RSS. The operational budget to operate it is a drop in the bucket compared to the overall budget. Grants for capital projects come up from time to time. The biggest expense - teacher salaries, are not more expenseive at RSS as student -teacher ratios are the same as elsewhere. Perhaps SD20 has a refresher course on reading comprehension. Not all students are served best by small schools and not all students are served best by large schools. This is not molly coddling. It's about helping them graduate because they actually like going to school, and helping them achieve their best possible potential. It's about so many things that I just don't know if you have the capacity to understand, fp. So I won't further waste my time. Not everyone tries harder when they feel smaller and weaker. You might want to offer your advice about "trying harder when you feel smaller and weaker" to the parents of the teenager on the coast who recently committed suicide because of unresolved bullying issues.

Why do you feel

that students won't like going to school at Crowe? What if they won't have a choice? How do you prepare them for that eventuality? The School District is facing a million dollar annual shortfall. It's not allowed to run a deficit. If it does, it has to restructure and pay back the debt. So, do trustees cut programs, teachers, or what, just to satisfy Rossland? It's only 10 minutes to Crowe. Students from Montrose and Fruitvale (in greater numbers than Rossland) make the trip everyday. What can't you understand about fiscal responsibility? If you can't afford your rent or your mortgage and you've been struggling for a number of years trying to make ends meet, what do you do? - fp

4 Day School week is fiscally prudent

....and has been shown to have no negative impact on academic achievement, but will have the potential to save anywhere from $500000 - 1.2 million annually according to various estimates. (wages, transportation and reduced substitute teacher needs, and savings in reduced sick time). Maybe this could be piloted at RSS first? And fp, you're trying to misquote me again. I don't necessarily feel students won't like going to Crowe. I just think we're barking up the wrong tree by pointing the finger at RSS. There's many reasons why it could be considered an asset to the district (as is Crowe). Neither is superior to the other in a global sense (but one environment might be better for some students than others in some situations). My point is that both schools add up to a better total package in trying to attract new students to the district....and maintain diversity in educational offerings. Just as with financial investments, it's not wise to throw all your eggs into one basket. What about reducing the number of administrative staff? How about going down to 5 or 7 trustees elected at large? What about finding ways to increase revenue to the district? What about considering the fiscal losses to the district if students are lost to private schools, or if families leave, or don't move here in the first place? (that's around $9000 per student if I remember correctly....)

Sure

How many principals does RSS currently have? If the two high schools were merged there would be great savings just in the administrative staff alone not to mention heating and lighting. I don't buy your example that if students leave the district...what you're saying is that if families left Rossland because RSS closed that there would be a loss of 9000 dollars per student. But the rest of the district would continue on, minus the expenses associated with an unsustainable school. How many more "pilot" or make work projects have to be undertaken at RSS? There have been several and it still has not significantly improved the future enrollment numbers. Students can be taught in one high school. I think its the parents that have lost perspective. -fp

And if the 2 Rossland schools

And if the 2 Rossland schools merged into a K-12 school then there'd be a similar level of savings.

Well, not really

The amount of capital expenditure that's required at the present time to retrofit RSS, does not make it cost effective even if it is merged. fp

Are you saying

that School District 20 allows bullying and that it doesn't have a anti-bullying policy or that it doesn't deal effectively with bullying? Have you ever been made aware of such a case in SD 20? Bullying can happen anywhere, whatever the size of the school. Why do you believe it happens only in 800 size school? - fp

Um...of course bullying can

Um...of course bullying can happen anywhere, and it could also happen at RSS, although smaller schools do tend to have less of it. I'm not saying there's not an anti-bullying policy. I'm just giving an example of one of the many cirumstances that can lead a student to wish to change schools...to try to illustrate why there's value in students having choice in where they are educated.

The North end of the District

has a number of elementary schools that feed into ONE high school. The South end of the district has a number of elementary schools from Warfield to Fruitvale that feed into ONE high school. Rossland has ONE elementary school to feed into ONE high school. And, the numbers keep declining. RSS sucks needed resources away from the majority of students. Enough already. - fp

more than one feeder school

RSS receives students from ST. Michael's, Ecole Sept Summits, MAclean and WEbster (though most from WEbster and St. Michael's go to JLCSS) and potentially students from other schools who want a smaller high school. RSS is now in a position to generate income for the district through specialty programming.

Numbers are likely

very small. Be honest. -fp